PassWord – 1st July 2015

Speaker A: This program is brought to you by Resonance 104.4 FM. If you like what you hear and want to support our work, please make a donation at fundraiser.resonance.fm.

Speaker B: Hello and welcome to Password on Resonance FM with me, Peter Warren, the show that brings you the new thinking of the information age. The theme of today’s program is how the internet is making us all totally retro, how musicians are going back to the days before vinyl, and how cinemas and theatres are coming back to life. So if you want to hear how the savvy musicians are surviving life after the illegal download and how to use the internet to pursue a musical career, Then stay tuned and you’ll also find out about a new craze known as event cinema that is quite literally back to the future, as cinemas, those fossils of the dying high street, have now come back into their own and are spawning huge opportunities for creative people. We speak to the man behind a report that predicts a $1 billion market in event cinema by 2019 and the head of digital for the National Theatre, who are one of the first to spot the opportunities it presents. But first, since the birth of the internet, the music industry has become a basket case, accused of being old-fashioned and unimaginative about ensuring its survival. And that’s because, according to speakers attending a debate on the future of music and the free download last week, it’s not about the music, it’s about the fans. As Shelley Taylor, a successful Silicon Valley entrepreneur and founder of digital fan clubs, points out, it’s the record industry that is hung up on products because that’s what it does sell recordings. The musicians should focus on making music for the people who enjoy it, their fans. Here’s Shelley.

Speaker C: Do you reckon if I say anything they’ll scream?

Speaker B: Like if I just said pajamas?

Speaker C: I think that music has become such a commodity lately and it’s all available for free that it’s only like the very small percentage of people who are going to purchase music, but people are purchasing music experiences like concerts and a t-shirt and VIP gatherings and other things, live events, they’re doing all of that because of their love of music. It’s just that the actual music, those little MP3s, are not really worth anything anymore.

Speaker B: Right, so what is it that a musician needs to do then? What is that value-add that you’re talking about?

Speaker C: Well, musicians need to continue to be creative and to resonate with their fans fans. That’s their primary job. So it’s not as if anybody can be a musician and garner all this fan adulation that you can then translate into music. So it’s still back to the basics, but it’s kind of going back to the basics of 100 years ago before recorded music, where it was all about live and it was those experiences that musicians got paid for. It’s just a very tiny blip in history where people are getting paid for the actual distribution of physical or digital music. So I think we’re not, it’s not anything strange or crazy that we’re going back to something as basic as you need to get out there on the road and perform in order to be paid.

Speaker B: And do you think that musicians properly understand technology? You were giving an example of One Direction, for example, not having its app and promoting its app on its website. Do you think that happens a lot?

Speaker C: I think it happens a lot. I think that Some musicians use Facebook and Twitter and Instagram, so they understand a little bit about technology, but when it comes to dealing with their record label or their management company, they kind of defer all of that other kind of technology to them. Those guys are not really known for being the most innovative, and they’re more herd mentality than they are leader mentality. And so I think successful artists— I used Madonna. She’s a successful artist. She absolutely understands the value of technology and she understands that it’s all about her collecting this kind of fan experience and making it available. She’s amazing at marketing and it’s nothing to do with her music really, as we all know. I mean, she’s okay at the music, but she’s really great at marketing. And I think more artists need to learn that it’s not just about being in the studio and doing beautiful music, it’s about engaging with fans and collecting them and, you know, giving them what they want.

Speaker B: Do you think that also, I mean obviously the newspapers have proved for ages there’s a huge appetite for people about the trivia of the lives of celebrities. Do you think that that’s something else that they have to start sharing with their fans?

Speaker C: I don’t think they have to share the trivia. I think they have to share something because, well, there are very few artists like an Adele who doesn’t really share anything about her life, but she’s one of those amazing musicians that just garners total loyalty. Based on her music, but that’s so rare. I think it’s all about who you are, what created that music, what your life experiences are, and I don’t think it needs to be superficial trivia or who you’re dating and all that kind of stuff, but it wouldn’t hurt to know that you read this book the other day that inspired you and that’s where your lyrics kind of came from, is some dark South American novel that you read, and I think that fans want to know where the music comes from, and so what doesn’t inspirations are. Was it because you had a divorce? Was it because, you know, you watched a film? Was it because you had a holiday in a third world country? You know, what are the things that inspired you?

Speaker B: Right, so, and we all, we knew that from those old record sleeves that we all used to get, didn’t we? Where it had all of that sort of information on them, which perhaps they need to revisit.

Speaker C: Well, I think we are kind of back to the future in a sense that we have to go back and realize what it was that fans actually wanted. And fans have never been about this kind of fleeting instant of an MP3. They’ve always been about all the story and the albums. And the albums don’t exist anymore, and all the story that goes with the albums. There are digital ways of producing that kind of a story now. And, you know, it doesn’t really take high tech in order to understand how an app works or how communicating with your fans works. It’s just about thinking that your fans are the only way you eat and you need to give them what they want.

Speaker B: Now, one of the things that you were saying was they can generate a lot of data. What do you mean by that? Do you mean that they can generate a lot of data that they could sell to somebody like Google or Facebook, or do you mean that they can find out about what their fans want and give them that?

Speaker C: They could sell it. If they’re big enough, they could sell their data as well because there’s plenty of buyers for it. But the kind of things they can do with it is know that it’s not East London, it’s actually West London, where their fans are by seeing them on a map that tracks the geolocation of them. So why are the venues always in East London when it turns out that the fans of this particular artist are in West London? Why not do the pub, you know, gigs in West London instead of in Shoreditch, right? There’s a lot of things if you have that data you can make decisions that are going to help you monetize. It’s also creating, you know, for a larger artist, it’s not just about finding the right pub or the right venue, it’s also And also, what brand partnerships can you have? If you know that in the case that I gave you, that example of Jose Padilla’s app, 95% of the users seem to be men around 40 years old. There are brands that would love to have a way to reach those people that the demographics are so clear. You can actually see where they live. They live— most of them live south of the river in London. It’s just amazing data. The sky’s the limit in terms of what you can do with it.

Speaker B: Just as a final question, do you think that there’s going to be more of this engagement that we’ve seen where you’ve had people like Robbie Williams turning up at somebody’s wedding, one of his fans’ weddings, and then suddenly singing a song and they’re absolutely bowled over? And that’s happened quite a few times.

Speaker C: Yeah, and I think that it’s not about staging events like that. I think it’s Bill Murray who turns up in all the strangest places, the actor, you know. He’s just doing his life and he’s creating these experiences and he’s creating this amazing adoration by his fans because he does that. So I think there’s great opportunities for that. The, you know, the Cooks send out a tweet that they’re going to be at the Cow at the pub, right? And, you know, they set it up, 20 minutes later you get 1,800 13-year-old girls that turn up, you know. And they love that. They actually got to go see the object of their—

Speaker B: well, I’m just their desire.

Speaker C: So really, that’s old-fashioned fan engagement.

Speaker B: I suppose there’s also the opportunity to make money because they could say to a pub, look, we’re going to say we’re going to be there, give us half of the money.

Speaker C: Exactly, and that case didn’t work out too well because they were 13-year-olds and they couldn’t buy beer. But somebody who had the right fan group could definitely make money like that, that’s for sure.

Speaker B: That was Shelley Taylor of Digital Fan Clubs pointing out that if musicians take a leaf out of heavy rock band Iron Maiden’s book, they’ll be all right. Iron Maiden’s lead singer Bruce Dickinson, a qualified airline pilot, flies fans to its concerts, and the band sells computer games of its mascot and other merchandise to its followers via its website because they know that hardcore fans, known as super fans, are worth £5,000 a year each. According to Chris Cook, founder of the music business magazine CMU, the same holds true whether you’re a supergroup or a cellist. Look after your followers and the music looks after itself. And he believes technology is the key to making that happen. Good morning and welcome to our first AMPartnership Wall Street Journal breakfast debate. 75% of our business is stuff that Don Draper would not recognize.

Speaker C: So it’s really not about advertising and marketing, it’s about adding value to communities.

Speaker B: You know, professionally created news is of incredible importance in societies and has deep moral purpose. If you stop doing the stories brilliantly and it just is all about cats on skateboards, then none of this will work.

Speaker A: Content can be a Snapchat message content can be Game of Thrones, and it’s how we consume content today is completely different.

Speaker C: Yeah, I make content, but I know that some guy in their dorm room or someone on the airplane or a bus has ability to reach a million ears in 9 seconds. So it’s when it’s adopted is when it’s successful, because that’s when you know you penetrated. The views, that could be fake views.

Speaker B: You know, there is a duopoly, with all due respect, of Google and Facebook in terms of platform. Do we run towards offers from companies like Apple and Facebook to put our content in their walled gardens, or do we pause and think together about what the most appropriate way of dealing with these opportunities are?

Speaker C: A software developer develops software, and because of capacitive touch, Apple created apps. You can’t even spell Apple without an app. These guys changed the world.

Speaker B: You measure success when your competitors squirm. So when you see your competitors discomforted, you know that you’re successful. So that’s one thing. You don’t enjoy that though, do you, Mark?

Speaker A: No.

Speaker B: I get no entertainment out of that whatsoever.

Speaker C: Right now, who you think your competitor is, if you’re competing against the people that you’re competing with, you’re gonna lose.

Speaker B: The generation that’s graduating from American universities now is the first generation approximately that’s lived with the internet from the day they popped their head out of the womb.

Speaker C: Yeah, I’m like, okay, ads, ads, ads. You know people don’t like it on YouTube. They skip it. So—

Speaker B: Not true.

Speaker C: Don’t skip it. No, no, no.

Speaker A: Young people skip it. They don’t. Actually, they don’t skip it.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker A: 87% do not skip.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Well, they’re not paying attention to it and they’re skipping it in their head. Regardless of what your metric says, we’re not paying attention to it. If you don’t add value to people’s lives, then I don’t really give a shit about your advertising.

Speaker A: If you look at the Spotify model, and so obviously Spotify’s free element has been a little bit controversial in recent months, and we know certain artists— Taylor Swift being the most obvious— and we hear that Universal Music, for example, are getting nervous of there being these 55 million people who are using the free service versus the 20 million who are paying. Having said that, every market where Spotify has launched, it has signed up paying users way faster than everybody else. And they would very much say freemium sells premium. And I think that the stats prove that, that there is an element to what they’re doing that is correct. That said, I think the challenge is there is a finite number of £10 a month subscribers. That’s quite a lot of money for the average consumer. And so we have to start finding £2 a month services. £5 a month services to get the bigger mass market. And the challenge there is, well, what is it about a £2 service that is better than Spotify’s free service? And I think that’s where ultimately I think the Spotify free service will have to cut back a little in order to allow the £2 service that can go mass market but be better than free.

Speaker B: Okay, now the program that I’m making this for is the Password program on Resonance FM. Resonance FM is is beloved by music fans and it’s beloved by musicians. So what advice would you give to those musicians about what they should do to their websites and what they should do in this new world?

Speaker A: What I would always say to artists, particularly artists who are in control of all of their output, so they’re self-releasing, is get your content everywhere. And I know it can be frustrating when you’ve put a lot of work into creating some great content to then see it on Spotify and YouTube being given away for free. But I would say get your content everywhere. Do it in a way that you are earning any royalties that are available. So it’s easy to get on Spotify and those services. There are distributors who will help you. Get on YouTube as a content partner so you get whatever ad revenue there is. Keep an eye on SoundCloud. They’re doing something similar. Be everywhere, but then direct to fan, okay? And where you will probably make most of your revenue, particularly if you’re a more sort of serious musician rather than a pop star, is Finding who are the few thousand people who are really into your stuff, connect with them directly, get their email addresses, and then, well, what can you sell to them? And that will depend on who they are. Are they vinyl buyers? Are they gig ticket buyers? Are they t-shirt buyers? Are they beer buyers? In which case, create a beer and sell it to them. So have your music everywhere, get the revenue that you can, but actually, you know, don’t rely on that and look at your core fan base and see how can I make revenue out of these people.

Speaker B: That’s going to be a real challenge, isn’t it? Because you’ve got people who are musicians, and you’re asking them to basically become a— the group of all of their fans, and they’ve got to understand their data. How do they start understanding that data?

Speaker A: Well, and the term that we’ve used in recent years for this model is DIY, but actually that’s a misleading term. You’re right. Clearly, you can’t do it yourself. And I think this is where management becomes really important. This is where the role of the manager— and it used to be that the manager was the middleman in essence. So the manager initially would do all the work, then they’d go and find the label deal, the publishing deal, blah blah blah. And then once all the deals were in place, they would sit in the middle. Whereas increasingly managers have to be the CEO of the band, if you like. This is my band, this is my fan base, this is how we can make money, therefore these are deals that we need to do. So it comes down to great management. Are there enough great managers? And of course the risk for managers is managers generally are on a 20% cut. 20% of nothing is nothing. So managers often have to do a lot of work up front for no money in the hope that eventually it will come good. But I think the management sector is the really interesting bit of the music industry for me because it’s where the opportunities are and it’s where actually a lot of the great innovation is doing in terms of everything I was saying in terms of the direct-to-fan The problem is, self-releasing artists listening to this might say, well, how do I find a manager? Ask a manager that, and they will always say, we’ll find you. So it’s a case of getting out there, gigging, be clear that you’re making a bit of traction, you’ve got your music on Spotify, have, say, like a MusicGlue or Bandcamp store, show that you’re serious and you’re getting a bit of momentum, and then if you’re doing it right, touch wood, a manager will find you.

Speaker B: That also means that you’ve got to say to your manager, I’m going to interview you and I’m going to find out what you know about technology, surely?

Speaker A: Yes, find a good manager. And how do you know if they’re a good manager? Well, I mean, a lot of managers work on multiple artists, so you can see what are they doing for other artists. But yes, is, is, you know, what is your knowledge of— I mean, getting your content out on streaming platforms, that’s easy, anyone can do that. What is your knowledge of gathering data? You’re looking for an entrepreneur almost.

Speaker C: Most.

Speaker A: Managers still often have to phone up the artists and make sure they get out of bed in the morning. It’s almost as if there’s that disconnect of actually you probably need two managers. You need the personal manager who makes sure you do the work, and then you need the entrepreneur. And I think I meet lots of entrepreneurs who are music fans who say, I’m going to set up a digital music service. And there’s part of you that says, we’ve already got enough digital music services, we don’t need any more digital music services. Please go and find some artists and build businesses around them. Because I think that is where, yes, how do you— How do you find a manager? And once you’ve found them, how do you know if they’re any good? And that, like any business deal, that’s a big gamble.

Speaker B: What is the essential technology that somebody now engaged in the modern world of the internet who is a musician must have?

Speaker A: That’s a very good question. Beyond making the music, the email address is everything to me, okay? And you can have a great Facebook and you can have a great Twitter and you can have a great YouTube, and you should have all of those things. But I remember I was on a panel with the guy who founded ReverbNation, which is a direct-to-fan platform, a few years ago, and his line was, “What is the one thing that Facebook, Twitter, YouTube ask you for when you sign up? They all ask for your email address. They recognize how important that is.” So have a way of collecting email addresses of your fans. Clipboard a gig is the starting point, but then there are services out there, ReverbNation, Musicly Bankcamp, who will help you do the MP3 for email exchange and be gathering that email address. Address. Having people on Facebook, Facebook own the fan base. Twitter, Twitter. Those are still incredibly important channels, but do everything you can to have that direct relationship.

Speaker B: And obviously have a website as well.

Speaker A: And so therefore have a website that has the plugin where I get a free download if I give you my email address.

Speaker B: Chris Cook on why it’s all part of getting back to the reason for making music, which has been at a unique event, and abandoning the idea of trying to shave revenue from people every time a piece is aired. Something As you have heard, that struck a chord with will.i.am, founder of the band Black Eyed Peas, who rounded on a Google executive in Cannes last week who had claimed that 87% of people don’t skip ads on YouTube. It’s a world that, as we’ve said, could see the music industry and the recording industry going their separate ways. They just have not realized that they’re divorcing yet. This is Password with Peter Warren on Resonance FM, and after us you can hear Kitchen Magic Time. And if you’re listening to the repeat, then it’s The Organ Presents: The Other Rock Show. While the cinema, another industry which seemed to be in terminal decline, has suddenly recovered courtesy of the digital revolution, and amazingly has seen audiences coming back to it to see content reminiscent of those in the ’40s because of its ability to give that same unique experience that the music industry can generate, the research company IHS published a report into what it says is going to be a new $1 billion phenomenon last week. And here’s the report’s author, David Hancock, to explain why the cinema is now the phoenix rising from the ashes of the high street. What is event cinema then? I mean, everybody would say that the cinema is an event.

Speaker E: Cinema is an event, yeah. We’ve had the cinema experience. We’ve always had that. Event cinema, it fits into that cinema experience. It’s the non-film programming part of cinema. So it’s the things that appear on screens that aren’t feature films. Generally this has been operas, ballets, theatre, some sport. But now of course, as well of course, you have cinema itself, films that can appear in an event way, so secret cinema, pop-up cinema. And they’re all part of the event cinema movement.

Speaker B: Okay, so, and what’s behind that then? What do you think is driving this sudden resurgence of going to the cinema but not to see film?

Speaker E: Well, originally what was behind that was the cinema exhibitor looking at their occupancy rates, which is basically 20% a week. Each seat is occupied on average for 20% of the time. And when you have occupancy rates of 20% and you’re trying to run a business,, you clearly look at it and think, we can do better. So in off-peak times, so really any sort of weekday times, Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, there are very few people actually going to the cinema. And if you can increase your occupancy by putting on an opera or a ballet, which are generally very well attended, then this really sort of hits your bottom line.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting, isn’t it? Here where I live in Suffolk, the local butcher is quite famous butcher, very good butcher. But obviously not making very much money because she then opened a coffee shop which was at the butcher’s, which always struck me as a strange idea. But this is the sort of idea of the new world, isn’t it? Where new things start happening in a space like a cinema, but you have to think about what it is that you’re doing or how you’re going to use your existing facility.

Speaker E: Absolutely. Excuse me. Well, what’s driven this really in that sense, in the sense that you have a cinema space, but it’s also a great venue. It’s a great place to be actually. Most cinemas are pretty nice. And you have all the facilities such as concessions, popcorn, all that sort of stuff. But you have a space that’s really fundamentally being used for a very small part of the time. With digital projection, the UK cinemas and the world cinemas turned into digital. That’s how 3D came along.. But you have the ability now to play out all sorts of other stuff. You can plug in anything into a cinema projector now and play it out. So you can plug in your iPhone you’ve made a film on. And for example, there are cinemas now who are doing things like iPhone festivals. So they’ll ask local schools to come up with 5-minute short films and all the people that do it, and the resulting day out will be a day to the cinema watching all the feature films, and then they’ll be voted on and have a winner. So you’re having this movement of activity around cinemas because of the fact that they’re now very flexible spaces. And what people in content holders, if you like, people who do other things out of the ordinary— so yes, the big high culture stuff such as the ballets and the operas and the museums— they’re looking at what they have and thinking, well, okay, we do this stuff live and we sometimes get it onto television as well, or DVD box sets, but at the same time we can also have— there is a sort of a secondary live audience we can have. There is a demand for high culture. There’s demand for Royal Opera House, there’s demand for the Bolshoi Ballet, the Met Opera.

Speaker B: So what’s this market worth? What is event cinema worth?

Speaker E: Event cinema in the UK was worth £36 million last year. Globally, it was worth $300 million last year, and we expect it’s going to rise to about $1 billion in 5 years’ time.

Speaker B: Now, you’re calling this the experience economy. Why are you calling it the experience economy?

Speaker E: Well, cinema is more and more, the cinema itself is becoming the source of value, the source of the experiential part of the film. So when you look at the film’s life and it goes from the cinema then through into the other media, but the other media increasingly become digital, which is decreasing their value, not the value of the film itself if you like, the actual product, but the value that it makes from the consumer. And so the cinema is sort of standing up there on its own in a place where the transactions, so the actual I’m paying money for this feature film, is very high. So the cinema experience, the actual cinema part of this is becoming very, very important to the feature film, well, people that make feature films. And at the same time, you have the premium part of cinema. So we have things like 3D started it. You have 4D as well, which is motion seating. You have laser illumination. You have all sorts of things going to cinemas, immersive sound, but they’re all increasing the value feel like the experience within cinema.

Speaker B: But when you say experience, I mean, how big is the experience that we can get in the cinema? I mean, surely, you know, I’m not going to be able to smell things, am I? I mean, I’m not going to be able to get something similar to the world that I normally see.

Speaker E: Well, funny you should say that, because, you know, imagine the film by the book by Patrick Suskin, Perfume. You can imagine that’s been quite successful for the X film.

Speaker B: Well, that was David Hancock of the research house IHS. So what is it about cinemas that makes them attractive to an elite audience like the National Theatre? And why can’t the culture vultures among us sustain ourselves on the juicy scraps served up by websites on the internet itself? We’re joined on the phone now by David Sappel, Director Broadcast and Digital and the Executive Producer of the National Theatre Live. David, welcome to Password.

Speaker D: Thanks very much, nice to be here.

Speaker B: Good. Now, David, theatre goes to the pictures.

Speaker D: How does that work? Well, we launched our programme National Theatre Live, which is now in its 6th year and has done nearly 50 different productions that we broadcast into cinemas around the world and has just had really exponential growth. We started on about 270 cinemas in about 17 countries, and it’s grown now to almost 2,000 cinemas in about 45 countries. So we’ve seen really exponential growth over the years, huge growth in audiences and revenues. And the reason that the National Theatre first got into this game really was about our mission. It was about the national in our name. We want to be truly national and accessible to as many people across the UK as we can be. Of course, the natural thing about being a theatre, the inherent thing about being a theatre means that you are confined to your physical walls capacity. And so we have sold out shows which people simply sometimes can’t get tickets to. And although we have a very active touring program, in fact the number of shows we’ve taken out on tour since we launched NT Live has increased over the years, but there are places that don’t actually have live theaters and certainly not ones that are large enough to house some of the shows that get staged here at the National. So this was an incredibly exciting way for us to reach tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands more people around the UK who are part of our public funding and help the National Theatre to exist.

Speaker B: So what does theatre bring to this relationship though? Because people will just say, hang on, this is going to be very flat. It’s watching a play in 2D and I’m not seeing the things in the round, as I think people say in the theatre.

Speaker D: Yeah, I think that’s right. I mean, I have to say, when we first launched it, it was an experiment. And we were, you know, many of the artists, Nick Hytner, who was the director of the National Theatre at the time, who had both an illustrious film and theatre career, sort of said, well, we don’t want to do something which feels substandard to film and substandard theater. But the thing that excited us, and when I went to see in the early days one of the Metropolitan Opera broadcasts, were really the first organization to sort of pioneer what many are calling a new genre and a sort of hybrid form, was that you were walking into a cinema. I was walking to a cinema in London, an ocean away from New York, 5 hours later, and I could see the audience walking into the auditorium of the Metropolitan Opera. And we were all sharing in an experience, and the people around me were looking at programs. They were dressed up. It felt like they were really going to the theater. There was a sense of event, and everyone applauded at the end of the screening, which sounds kind which is a little bit counterintuitive because of course the singers and actors couldn’t actually hear us, but we felt like we had seen the performance. And that was incredibly exciting to us. Now we believe that this never replaces actually going to the theatre and seeing a live performance, but what it does do is it offers something else. And particularly for those people who can’t otherwise access the theatre and get to London, then this was an incredibly exciting way across the UK or indeed around the world of having a chance to engage with our work. And I think what we found is The technology has moved on in such a way, partly with the HD cameras, but that the quality of the experience that you’re watching with an audience, you’re responding and reacting to, it’s still a theatrical event. The scale of the big screen preserves in a way the scale of what you see on stage. So you can linger on a wide shot, but on a cinema screen those actors are actually life-size as they would be in the theatre. So although it can never be exactly the same experience, it can still be a very high-quality one. And if you don’t otherwise have access to that product, or you want to see it indeed in a different way, we hear from customers who go to see it in the theatre, and then also go to see it in the cinema because you get a different kind of intimacy with the performance. So I think it’s a kind of new experience and one that people are responding incredibly positively to.

Speaker B: OK, well, I’m afraid, David, that we’ve run out of time. I wanted to ask you about virtual reality and augmented reality, but unfortunately we’ve hit the buffers now.

Speaker D: Sorry to hear that, but it’s something we’re looking at, I’ll say that much.

Speaker B: Thank you very much. That was David Sabell, the Head of Digital for the National Theatre, Explaining why The National will soon be appearing in a cinema near you. You’re listening to Password on Resonance FM, and if you’ve just tuned in, I’m afraid you’ve just missed it. Password is brought to you by Future Intelligence, and if you’d like to know more about the ramifications of technology, go to our website, www.futureintelligence.co.uk. In the spirit of this program’s theme, Password is an Angel Media production based on an inspired email exchange between—

Speaker A: This program has been brought to you by Resonance 104.4 FM. If you liked what you heard and want to support our work, please make a donation at fundraiser.resonance.fm.